Draenor Risk Race Creation Thread

[Roflpotamus]

Hey, if people could help, let's compile a list of cultures and religions that have not been employed by Blizzard in Warcraft thus far.

The two are typically synonymous such as the Celtic nature of the Night Elves and their Druidic worship.

Furthermore, we will most likely find ourselves melding cultures after we've compiled the list a la Amazonian female NE tied to the Celtic male NE.

Thus far, cultures that have not been tapped into that I can name off of the top of my head:

India
Russia
South/Central America
Some random African tribes
Perhaps major European influence? The Human kingdoms have no direct counterparts really.

What have been: (please dispute if you disagree)

Ancient Japanese: Orcs
Carribean: Trolls
Native American: Tauren
Persian: Blood Elves (a great write-up on this is on Scrolls of Lore)
Irish: Dwarves
Mongols: Centaur
Celtic: Male NE
Amazonian: Female NE

[NavySeal]

I don't think Ancient Japanese are Orcs... Doesn't make sense... Not to mention we can make cultures clear out of nothing whatsoever! We don't need to base them off real things, plus we could take stuff from other games...

[fattythefat]

Yeah we don't, though basing the stuff on real things could be cool xD but I think that it was only Orcs who lived in Draenor before the dark portal opening...

[NavySeal]

No there was the Ogres Gronn ancients and a bunch of other shit

[Roflpotamus]

In the Blademasters, their loyalty to their clan, their strong sense of honor, their warrior and peon class, Orcs are ridiculously close to ancient Japan culture-wise. Physically though, they are as different as possible.

Nearly every Warcraft faction has been based in a real culture, and it's done superbly for Warcraft, so why not continue this trend for Draenor risk I feel.

[Roflpotamus]

There were also the Draeni and the Arrakoa.

Amongst the separate Orc clans there was much contention right before the opening of the portal as well.

We can create lore for the Whiteclaw clan (my fav =D), the firewalker, etc.

WoWWiki Orc clans.

Additionally, we are creating a new area to the east.

I personally envision an archipelago stretching through the south-east and a continent through the north-east.

[Nickel510]

If you want to get an idea of where I'm taking this map head to the Draenor Risk thread here http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/draenor-risk-world-reimagined-184768/ and see the two races I've already posted and an some ideas for three more. You don't need to post in that thread, but it might help the map if you did, just a polite bump every once and a while though I think it would be better if we kept our main discussion on this forum.

But seriously, if you guys would, and it really helps if you already have a membership with some post, post a suggestion or two that you already had on the Draenei Risk thread on hiveworkshop, just in an attempt to get more mapmakers to join the team.

Anyways...

So yeah if you read the thread on Hive you'd know the two races I'm thinking about adding are the Hauren and Bēarung, a Roman instect-like race, with some orc slaves, a Gnoll race that plays off the idea blizzard used for the trogg race in WoW (read wiki if you got questions about that) and then someone posted an idea about a race with lizards, thunder lizards from the barrens in wc3 I presume, but to make it legit it needs to be combined with a race that is the 'master' race that kind of uses the thunder lizards like the Frostwolf clan used wolves, if that makes sense.

Now... onto your suggestions Rofl . Well first off I really liked your idea of basing races off of real world ones, and that's where I got the idea for a Roman race, which is my most favorite of races from history, other then that I don't know much anything about the other races of history but that gives me an idea that you could look at one race and look at five different points in history and get five different ideas for a race if you wanted to. For instance, Soviet Russia was much different from the Russian Empire, just like Ancient Egypt was a lot different then Egypt under the Ptollemys rule.

Might give you some more ideas =P.

However, I do want to also keep this races WoW-linked, so if you do make a race try to base it off WoW-lore somehow... like I got the idea for a failed race creation (gnolls, but maybe actually make them kobolds, that would be more fitting) from reading the trogg wiki page.

As for your list of Wc3 races, I agree with all of them, I don't understand the Blood Elf-Persian link but I'll take your word for it I don't feel like reading the article.

I don't know much about India, it doesn't sound very fitting to the Draenor layout, but if you apply it to some wc3 models and give some history to the race, it might sound better. Same for the African tribes and South American tribes. As for Russia, I think the Roman insect race would be enough for a dominating, militarized and powerful nation.

I could also use some help on picking two or even three orc races to be in the game. I don't know anything about the Draenei-Orc War or anything about the First War (but I'm going to play the first and second game soon to get an idea) so would you please help me in choosing three good orc clans to be races? Or some combination of races to be one race etc? Keep in mind what it takes to create a race, good variation of units, models and a fitting capital. Also, keep in mind Draenei Risk races will have about 20 units per race. If you want to know how this works, read my Draenei Risk thread on hive .

Thanks again Rofl! Sorry if I forgot anything, I think I covered your entire post.

Tell me if I didn't please

[Roflpotamus]

If you want to get an idea of where I'm taking this map head to the Draenor Risk thread here http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/draenor-risk-world-reimagined-184768/ and see the two races I've already posted and an some ideas for three more. You don't need to post in that thread, but it might help the map if you did, just a polite bump every once and a while though I think it would be better if we kept our main discussion on this forum.

But seriously, if you guys would, and it really helps if you already have a membership with some post, post a suggestion or two that you already had on the Draenei Risk thread on hiveworkshop, just in an attempt to get more mapmakers to join the team.

Anyways...

Bah, since I'm logged in here I'll do it here. I'll do it there next time though ;]

So yeah if you read the thread on Hive you'd know the two races I'm thinking about adding are the Hauren and Bēarung, a Roman instect-like race, with some orc slaves, a Gnoll race that plays off the idea blizzard used for the trogg race in WoW (read wiki if you got questions about that) and then someone posted an idea about a race with lizards, thunder lizards from the barrens in wc3 I presume, but to make it legit it needs to be combined with a race that is the 'master' race that kind of uses the thunder lizards like the Frostwolf clan used wolves, if that makes sense.

What models would you use for the insect race? I can't think of a non-custom made model that depicts an insect. I LOVE the idea though.

If we can solve the problem with the custom models being associated with lag, then this should be AWESOME and we could move away from standard Azeroth models for races, however, 'till then, c'est la vie.

Anyway, when I suggested the Lizard race, I literally meant Lizardmen. This could portray the Mayan/Aztec/Inca society with a tiered warrior system that they had. However, these lizards could literally mutate instead of merely don the skin of an enemy (A la Jaguar warrior). More of said culture must be looked into!

Now... onto your suggestions Rofl . Well first off I really liked your idea of basing races off of real world ones, and that's where I got the idea for a Roman race, which is my most favorite of races from history, other then that I don't know much anything about the other races of history but that gives me an idea that you could look at one race and look at five different points in history and get five different ideas for a race if you wanted to. For instance, Soviet Russia was much different from the Russian Empire, just like Ancient Egypt was a lot different then Egypt under the Ptollemys rule.

Might give you some more ideas =P.

However, I do want to also keep this races WoW-linked, so if you do make a race try to base it off WoW-lore somehow... like I got the idea for a failed race creation (gnolls, but maybe actually make them kobolds, that would be more fitting) from reading the trogg wiki page.

As for your list of Wc3 races, I agree with all of them, I don't understand the Blood Elf-Persian link but I'll take your word for it I don't feel like reading the article.

I don't know much about India, it doesn't sound very fitting to the Draenor layout, but if you apply it to some wc3 models and give some history to the race, it might sound better. Same for the African tribes and South American tribes. As for Russia, I think the Roman insect race would be enough for a dominating, militarized and powerful nation.

And Japan doesn't sound fitting for the Orcs with their rugged world and all, yet Blizzard did a miraculous job in melding ancient Japanese society with the situation of the Orcs. I feel that the same can be done (and should be) with a huge slew of societies all over the world.

I could also use some help on picking two or even three orc races to be in the game. I don't know anything about the Draenei-Orc War or anything about the First War (but I'm going to play the first and second game soon to get an idea) so would you please help me in choosing three good orc clans to be races? Or some combination of races to be one race etc? Keep in mind what it takes to create a race, good variation of units, models and a fitting capital. Also, keep in mind Draenei Risk races will have about 20 units per race. If you want to know how this works, read my Draenei Risk thread on hive .

http://www.wowwiki.com/Clan

Use this to find the list of clans. I strongly recommend the more the merrier, maybe split the clans into three groups?

The totally Fel-empowered such as the Stormreaver Clan, the Twilight's Hammer, and the Shattered Hand, etc.

The somewhat empowered, somewhat clinging to tradition as in the Blackrock Clan (Orgrim vs. Blackhand), Bleeding Hollow, and Thunderlord clans, etc.

The totally resisting the fel such as the Whiteclaw Clan, the Redwalker Clan, and the Frostwolf Clan.

Thanks again Rofl! Sorry if I forgot anything, I think I covered your entire post.

Tell me if I didn't please

Ummm, can you start a thread concerning lag problems when using custom models on Hiveworkshop please?

I have a paper I urgently need to write so I cannot myself, best of luck!

[Nickel510]

Excellent stuff rofl! But when did you suggest a lizard race? I was referring to Levdragon, but I assume that isn't you.. right?

Also, try reading the hive thread! I'm going to make a separate Draenor RISK forum when echoes is on, but until then, that hive thread has all the current info.

As for an insect race, just look at the current Silithid race in WoW Risk. Also, there is the Nerubians and I think a couple more, I'll have to investigate this further though. My main inspiration was the Nerubians as there are some spider models in Wc3 I know that much, and I was thinking have an Orc slave-race in the mix to help with available models, and make it a little more unique. I'll look through the available wc3 models later and post back here on the available insect models.

Lizard people sound cool and all but... yeah no models unfortunately, but I kind of like the idea of a people closely linked with a single animal, almost like a familiar but not all demonic and witchy. More like... frostwolf clan and their wolves or even something closer.

As for real world races, if you can give me some solid examples, linked with some wc3 models and some good history, I'll probably go for it. I'm not making any promises, but I'd love to see what you come up with. I kind of like the idea of an African-like race, but I have no idea how this would work.
Also, I just thought about it, and Centaurs seem a bit more Arabian-Egyptian to me and the horde feel like a Japanese-Mongol combo with their society and purely destructive nature, at least in the past. Now they're more peaceful, except for that shmuck Garrosh Hellscream.

Your clan combo is perfect man! I'll have to read more up on the clans to make it happen, but that's perfect. 3 different races, with 3 different clans and 3 pretty different styles. Good job man! I will definetely be using this.

Now... how about them Ogres? Any idea how I could get two races out of them? I don't think Ogr'ila existed at the time, so that isn't possible. I was thinking something like Ogre Lords and the Gronns but I don't know if that will work for my current race design, as I was thinking to make the Ogre Lords and Gronns the upper tier of the Ogre Race. Here is my current race design, taken from the hive thread:

One way I'd like to make the game smoother is by giving each race 20 units. A lower tier with cheap units, and a higher tier with expensive units This way, near end game or even mid-game, people won't experience unit lag or be forced to spam huge and hard-to-control armies. I plan to do this by giving each race an initial base that features the cheaper units, and then after they reach a certain income level their bases will automatically become the expensive base. To help explain this in-game, the new bases will feature a new clan or another addition of more powerful units. An example: You are the Frostwolf clan and after having reached an income of 75 (or an amount which the player has manually set) the Dragonmaw clan has joined your ranks and bolstered your units. This would signal the change in bases and explain the cause of it (but the real reason would be to make gameplay smoother).
This is not taken from the actual game, just a quick example.

Sorry such a long post >< I just drank a mountain dew! I'm hyper.

Also, I was thinking of posting this issue with lag and models, and just lag in general, on hive. I'll either do so now or tomorrow, it's getting close to bed time!

[Roflpotamus]

Excellent stuff rofl! But when did you suggest a lizard race? I was referring to Levdragon, but I assume that isn't you.. right?

Nein, but I offered one as well.

Also, try reading the hive thread! I'm going to make a separate Draenor RISK forum when echoes is on, but until then, that hive thread has all the current info.

As for an insect race, just look at the current Silithid race in WoW Risk. Also, there is the Nerubians and I think a couple more, I'll have to investigate this further though. My main inspiration was the Nerubians as there are some spider models in Wc3 I know that much, and I was thinking have an Orc slave-race in the mix to help with available models, and make it a little more unique. I'll look through the available wc3 models later and post back here on the available insect models.

Lizard people sound cool and all but... yeah no models unfortunately, but I kind of like the idea of a people closely linked with a single animal, almost like a familiar but not all demonic and witchy. More like... frostwolf clan and their wolves or even something closer.

For some reason I honestly Mantis-people. Silly me.

As for real world races, if you can give me some solid examples, linked with some wc3 models and some good history, I'll probably go for it. I'm not making any promises, but I'd love to see what you come up with. I kind of like the idea of an African-like race, but I have no idea how this would work.
Also, I just thought about it, and Centaurs seem a bit more Arabian-Egyptian to me and the horde feel like a Japanese-Mongol combo with their society and purely destructive nature, at least in the past. Now they're more peaceful, except for that shmuck Garrosh Hellscream.

I feel that the Centaurs are more Mongolian because of their architecture, their attire, their weaponry, their horseback nature, and their constant raids of neighboring settlements.

The centaur bit really hits the nail home.

For the Egyptian culture, it is present in the new cat-people race introduced in Uldum. They're a direct copy, with the worshiped creatures of the ancient Egyptians taking their role in this game.

Your clan combo is perfect man! I'll have to read more up on the clans to make it happen, but that's perfect. 3 different races, with 3 different clans and 3 pretty different styles. Good job man! I will definetely be using this.

;D

Now... how about them Ogres? Any idea how I could get two races out of them? I don't think Ogr'ila existed at the time, so that isn't possible. I was thinking something like Ogre Lords and the Gronns but I don't know if that will work for my current race design, as I was thinking to make the Ogre Lords and Gronns the upper tier of the Ogre Race. Here is my current race design, taken from the hive thread:

Looking it up, it seems that the Apexis crystals were always there, so the Ogri'la Ogres honestly could have been around in Draenor times. But don't forget that the Mok'nathal are another race in Blade's Edge!

One way I'd like to make the game smoother is by giving each race 20 units. A lower tier with cheap units, and a higher tier with expensive units This way, near end game or even mid-game, people won't experience unit lag or be forced to spam huge and hard-to-control armies. I plan to do this by giving each race an initial base that features the cheaper units, and then after they reach a certain income level their bases will automatically become the expensive base. To help explain this in-game, the new bases will feature a new clan or another addition of more powerful units. An example: You are the Frostwolf clan and after having reached an income of 75 (or an amount which the player has manually set) the Dragonmaw clan has joined your ranks and bolstered your units. This would signal the change in bases and explain the cause of it (but the real reason would be to make gameplay smoother).
This is not taken from the actual game, just a quick example.

I'm loving this idea, but rather than allowing the player to choose, so as to reduce lag, make it set at an arbitrary level. You could honestly just use the same models and everything but with doubled stats and doubled cost, but that'd be LAMEZORS.

Sorry such a long post >< I just drank a mountain dew! I'm hyper.

Also, I was thinking of posting this issue with lag and models, and just lag in general, on hive. I'll either do so now or tomorrow, it's getting close to bed time!

Atta' boy! Back to procrastinating for me!

[Nickel510]

True, I think centaurs are a clear reference to Mongolians after I read your post. Its just... I expected Mongolians to be a little more epic then some push arounds like the centaurs, but they're still cool and all, just not very strong compared to what the Mongolians did.

Anyway anyway...

I'm gettin grilled on hive for my new races not being original enough, this is what one guy said.

But anyways, I dislike your 'Hauren' and 'Bearung' races. They are very unoriginal, were already have Centaurs and Furbolgs, and to be honest, 'Bearung' ain't exactly the most subtle name (imagine Blizzard naming the Tauren as Cowrung). As Levdragon said, a lizard-ish race would be good. It hasn't been thought of yet in Wc3, and the closest they have is Naga (which are more fish-people than reptiles).
Other than that, I think this project has real potential. Good luck.

This was my reply

Of course you are right, but I'm working with Wc3 models only here, so technically none of it will be completely original. I understand that the Bearung are closely done after Night Elves, and the Centaur are... umm... well they're centaurs so there's that, but I really am having a difficult time making something almost totally original using Wc3 models only.
I'm only using Wc3 models to reduce lag, however, I've played Star Wars risk, which seemed to have a lot models, and it had zero lag. So I'm wondering, is lag caused by doodads or custom models, even if the models are between 100-200kb?
Although, I would hate to make a completely new race from custom models then discover that it makes the game lag and re-do it entirely...
I'll try to make the races more unique, but I thought that by making the Hauren kind of worshipping elementals, instead of just being Centaur, and then being enslaved by the elementals when they summoned the leader of the elementals, was enough to make them original. I guess not =/ lol as everyone seems to like an insect race but not the Bearung or Hauren. I'll keep trying... but like I said Wc3 models only makes it hard, and a lizard only race I don't see how that is possible as the Thunder Lizard are the only Lizards in Wc3.

So yeah, any suggestions there? I'll have to take a look at all the Wc3 races available to me later, but for now I am focusing on gameplay. When I get that more defined I'll take a more serious look at the races, but any suggestions, esp. from such a warcraft lore-keeper! and good suggester/nerd.

Edit: Oh and I was totally planning to make the second base completely original. Otherwise... that just sounds lamezors as you say. O.o
Re-read my post for a better explanation, about Frostwolf and Dragonmaw clan. I meant I'd begin using Dragonmaw clan units in place of Frostwolf ones, or more like use the clans you suggested and replace the weaker clan with the stronger ones, and then the middle clan would be the strongest of the first base, and weakest of the second. Thats just the idea so far.

[Roflpotamus]

At this point my suggestion is to push to find out about the lag problem since so many games do employ hordes of custom models and are lag-free.

I really think it's the doodads. From my time on Gamerisle, that was the consensus of lag creation. If this is confirmed, we can really go willy nilly with this!

The Mongols being represented in the Centaur is totally the lamest lamezors =/

Annddddd I do agree that I find the ideas unoriginal, but limited with standard models, wtf can you do? When this problem is solved however, we can viva la vida loca and go willy-nilly with the cultures and races we seek to reproduce.

Oy, in response to the Insectoid-Roman creatures, what say we have a race that basically fulfills the barbarian role of the Gauls or whatnot. Mayhaps replace them with the Aztec Lizardmen?

Voila!

[NavySeal]

I have one more idea... In WC2 (Most likely dark portal) I read on wowwiki there was a blue orc model made for the Flowerpicker clan, most likely to be very peaceful. They could possibly be the race connected with the Ancients, or something very peaceful, perhaps the Swiss? They never fight xD

[Roflpotamus]

I have one more idea... In WC2 (Most likely dark portal) I read on wowwiki there was a blue orc model made for the Flowerpicker clan, most likely to be very peaceful. They could possibly be the race connected with the Ancients, or something very peaceful, perhaps the Swiss? They never fight xD

They were a joke race =x

[fattythefat]

I have one more idea... In WC2 (Most likely dark portal) I read on wowwiki there was a blue orc model made for the Flowerpicker clan, most likely to be very peaceful. They could possibly be the race connected with the Ancients, or something very peaceful, perhaps the Swiss? They never fight xD

They were a joke race =x

Did Blizzard even say that? I liked their "WoW Restaurant" better:D where you could get dishes from wow xD

Maybe add a Cartaghian (cant remember what it is called) race?

[NavySeal]

In the Blademasters, their loyalty to their clan, their strong sense of honor, their warrior and peon class, Orcs are ridiculously close to ancient Japan culture-wise. Physically though, they are as different as possible.

Nearly every Warcraft faction has been based in a real culture, and it's done superbly for Warcraft, so why not continue this trend for Draenor risk I feel.

They may have been a joke but we could still use them! And a really delayed response to Rofl almost every1 had a strong sense of honor before... and the class part there was castes for other cultures but it was more diversiffied so orcs do get that. The clan part, the Scottish and Irish had that as well, and pretty much every thing with a clan, a family or a tribe or whatever. Plus the ancient japanese relating race that blizzard put in but never really finished was the Pandaren.

[fattythefat]

At this point my suggestion is to push to find out about the lag problem since so many games do employ hordes of custom models and are lag-free.

I really think it's the doodads. From my time on Gamerisle, that was the consensus of lag creation. If this is confirmed, we can really go willy nilly with this!

The Mongols being represented in the Centaur is totally the lamest lamezors =/

Annddddd I do agree that I find the ideas unoriginal, but limited with standard models, wtf can you do? When this problem is solved however, we can viva la vida loca and go willy-nilly with the cultures and races we seek to reproduce.

Oy, in response to the Insectoid-Roman creatures, what say we have a race that basically fulfills the barbarian role of the Gauls or whatnot. Mayhaps replace them with the Aztec Lizardmen?

Voila!

The Aztec are the Big troll empires... Zulgurub is Inca and Zulaman is Aztec/Maya

[Nickel510]

Sorry guys in a mad rush today, got work very soon, but I'll read all your posts later and try to reply to them. For now, please read the hive thread here

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/draenor-risk-world-reimagined-184768/index2.html

and tell me what you think about Special Events, and maybe an idea for a specific event or two.

And thanks to rofl and fatty for your posts on the thread! Your posts have kept Draenor Risk at the top of the forum for the past couple days thanks guys!

Be back in ... 8-9 hours. Peace!

[fattythefat]

The Special Events are nice! It will make this map really special, just hope we can get it balanced...

[NavySeal]

I got an idea for a special event. Maybe make like one of the continents unreachable at start (Kinda like WoWR exodus mode) and make it an event like that one of the races there has thrown their forces into the war, either on horde or alliance side. This could be an event for like a mode such as AvH or something else... Would be very complicated though :/

Edit: Maybe make a race like the Makura or Naga... Or a mix between? Like Naga with really hard shells... Could be the protecters left by the Titans like the Earthen were...

Edit 2: Possibly make a race of creatures that like float through the sky by sacks filled with a light gas (Kind of like the engineers from Halo, or the overlords from Starcraft[possibly use thatm model?], but act as a different function. They could come out of nowhere and as an event maybe cause a plague or something to half of the units? Maybe make only some areas poisonous?

[fattythefat]

hey guys if you really want to take part in this discussion/suggestions please make an account on hive... Nickel updates that one more than this...

[NavySeal]

Meh I forgot my account :/

[fattythefat]

Meh I forgot my account :/

make a new one? it takes 5 min

[NavySeal]

Then it wouldn't be NavySeal D:

[fattythefat]

Then it wouldn't be NavySeal D:

make it "Navy Seal" ????? i forgot my password once and had to do that on a forum... 500 posts and 10 rep out the window :/

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