Outland risk Race creation thread

[Bosco_the_Bear]

In this thread i will continually update the races i am working on and all the units which are in them. (N) marks a unit created from scratch

Illidari
MELEE

3g chaos racial Fel Orc Grunt (Illidari)

6g shadow racial Fel Orc Raider (Illidari)

(N)Minor Dread Lord-6g-Defensive Trait- Used a custom skin for this unit
Here its 75kb so i think its good on size, and it looks pretty damn sick imo

Corrupted Naga Myrmidon-6g-Tank-modified from naga royal guard

8g Fel Guard Lieutenant (felgaurd) (Illidari)-offensive trait-modified from blood guard

9g Naga Royal guard-rounded

13g Chaos Demon Hunter-suicidal-modded from demon hunters

RANGED

Mistress Of Pain-Beserker-4g-Modified from kul tiras poisoner

(N)Heavy Blood Archer-2g-skirmisher trait

5g magic Acid Spitter-Caster-(hydralisk, tinted green)-modded from naaru

Naga

MELEE

3g Murloc Slave-Beserker-Subservient Murlocs from the lowest caste of the Naga, warrior would be an overstatement.

4g Baby Dragon Turtle-Tank- A giant turtle tamed by the Naga to devour enemies.

9g Naga Royal Guard-Rounded An immense naga, wielding a massive spike-like weapon.

13g Sea Giant-Punisher-A giant creature native to Azeroth possesing a massive anchor.

RANGED

2g-Water Summon-Moon Glaive-Weak ranged water elemental summoned by the Naga.

4g-Hydra Hatchling-Skirmisher-Fierce newly hatched hydra.

5g magic Acid Spitter-Caster-(hydralisk, tinted green)-modded from naaru

[NavySeal]

Why would the Naga be corrupted? They went there by free will

[fattythefat]

Why would the Naga be corrupted? They went there by free will

Some where corrupted i think. But Nickel aint focusing on lore so w/e

[Nickel510]

Why would the Naga be corrupted? They went there by free will

It makes sense to me... it reads on wowwiki somewhere that the naga can become more and more mutated, such as the Naga Warlords have become. If a Naga was then infused with demonic energy or just dark magic, it could 'corrupt' them. Either way, I like what you're doing here Bosco. Good work! Thanks a lot mate! You are saving me so much extra work right now.

Also I'd like to have the races done by no later than December 30th, that's one reason why I say stick to the original 18 races (+ Kurenai to even out Nagrand) so you don't become too overwhelmed. But if you get really into it and think you can meet that deadline, do whatever you want.

[NavySeal]

We talkin' WoWR races here? Or the original ideas for races?

[Nickel510]

Err what navy?

Oh and Bosco, just so we're clear, I seriously want to add the Kurenai in Nagrand. So that the Mag'har don't have it all to themselves.
Also, I think that Ogri'la and the Mok'Nathal should be separate races. I originally combined some races so as to give me more options for models, but now that races are smaller it's not really an issue.
I would also like to see Consortium or Protectorate become their own race, and making goblins their own race as well. The Consortium capital would be Stormspire, but if you'd rather do Protectorate their capital is the Protectorate Watch Post in Netherstorm.

These changes would give Nagrand 2 races, Blades Edge 4 races, and Netherstorm 3. I would then set the race limit per region to 3. This way, three people could pick races in Netherstorm, Hellfire, SMV and Blades Edge and only two people can pick races in Terokkar, Shattrath, Sporregar and Nagrand.
My reasoning for this is that Terokkar, Shattrath, Sporregar and Nagrand are all much more exposed then Blades Edge, Netherstorm, Hellfire and SMV, which would all be easy places to turtle, compared to the other 4. By giving Netherstorm 3 races this would also help balance out the current state of Netherstorm and Blades Edge, because atm its quite easy to take Netherstorm and Blades Edge and turtle.

Adding four races to Blades Edge may seem odd, but it really is a big area, and I think Ogri'la and the Mok'nathal deserve their own race plus it would make more sense. They were never allied in the game and they both deserve a capital.

Those are my final words on the matter and the reasons behind them! Let it be so...

Also, please post all future Outland Risk suggestions and ideas here. Thank you!

Edit: Oh and remove the Ethereals from the Shadow Council.

[Nickel510]

Great idea time!

Rather than bunching up two races in Shattrath, combine Shatt into Terrokar Forest and put the Shat'tar there.

Put the capitals of the Scryers and the Aldor in Shadowmoon Valley instead of rehashed Orcs, rehashed Alliance units, and rehashed Broken Draeni.

Huzzah!



Goblins (Netherstorm)
Blood Elves (Netherstorm)
Consortium (Netherstorm)

Gronn's Ogres (Blade's Edge Mountains)
Mok'nathal (Blade's Edge Mountains)
Legion (Blade's Edge Mountains)

Sporregar (Zangarmarsh)
Naga (Zangarmarsh)
Cenarian Expedition (Zangarmarsh)

Fel Orcs (Hellfire Peninsula)
Horde (Hellfire Peninsula)
Alliance (Hellfire Peninsula)

Arrakoa (Terrokar Forest)
Shadow Council (Terrokar Forest)
Shat'tar(Terrokar Forest)

Kurenai (Nagrand)
Mag'Har (Nagrand)
Elementals (Nagrand)

Scryer (Shadowmoon Valley)
Illidari (Shadowmoon Valley)
Aldor (Shadowmoon Valley)

OK to get my final word on the races, read my above post. Also, you want to destroy shattrath?!?! WHY?!?!?!!!!! Its gorgeous you monster!

Just as a side note, it's very very unlikely I will change my opinion at this point, I don't like Sporregar as a race! There are no possible models for it. Closest I can think of is murlocs... and that just sounds gay. A race of like 8 murlocs and one giant thing?!? Screw Sporregar !

[NavySeal]

I meant like the races waaaaaaaaaaay back when we started but that's been cleared up.

Also if we do in fact do elementals I got an idea for their hero

Could be like a combination of the Fury's like you start off as Fire. and it could have like Volcano as something. But you could CHANGE YOU HERO to be the Earth guy
And some ideas for the units would be minor of each, normal of each, and two awesome of each

[Nickel510]

I meant like the races waaaaaaaaaaay back when we started but that's been cleared up.

Also if we do in fact do elementals I got an idea for their hero

Could be like a combination of the Fury's like you start off as Fire. and it could have like Volcano as something. But you could CHANGE YOU HERO to be the Earth guy
And some ideas for the units would be minor of each, normal of each, and two awesome of each

..........................

Read my above posts

[fattythefat]

Will the wildhammers also be in this? Or will they merge with Honor Hold?

[Nickel510]

Heck no. Wildhammer are a cool dwarf clan. Honor hold is totally different.

[fattythefat]

Then you have only two races in Nagrand, one of the biggest places, and an awkward mish-mash in Shadowmoon Valley with the Wildhammer Alliance Dwarves being represented but not the Horde Shadowmoon Clan.

Imo either move the Legion to Nagrand or make the Elementals a third race for Nagrand.

D=

Dun, dun, dun!

Dude the shadowmoon isnt that special, its just a Thrallmar copy... THe Wildhammers are a fully dwarven faction as opposed to the Honor Hold which is fully human (I think that would work)

[Roflpotamus]

Well thought out regarding the anti-turtle.

But instead, I suggest creating a portal between Netherstorm Space Ships and the Black Temple, thus two turtles are reduced. Also, possibly creating more openings to Blade's Edge via Zangarmarsh might be a good idea. Possibly one to the far left connection Ogri'La to the Ogre Mountain in western Zangarmarsh.

Furthermore, I feel that every zone should have the possibility to have at least 3 players in it, especially if it's such a huge zone as Nagrand. As stands, Nagrand onloy has two.


Also I don't want to destroy Shatt! It's far too gorgeous! Rather, I want it to be (Control-point wise) a part of Terrokar Forest and it's spawn. This way, Terrokar can have 3 races (which it otherwise is totally screwed on), and Shadowmoon valley can also have 3 unique races.

As stands, Shadowmoon Valley pulls a big lorelol by making the Dwarves a solitary faction and is then left with either the option of another rehash of the Broken (as in Nagrand) or Orcs (as in... everywhere). Rather, I propose the Aldor and Scryer be moved here since they have a heavy presence here and Shattrath is too packed with two races in it. Furthermore, it's a big lorelol not to have the Shat'trath be a faction =[

I very much like the idea of limiting the player size to 3 per region, however, I'd also very much like for every zone to have at least 3 races, which they do in the situation I proposed.

Furthermore, I'm loving your idea for the Elemental hero Navy. I was thinking something along those lines meself. Either that or an Arcane Elemental that is a conglomerate of the four and can go all Panderan Brewmaster on the enemy with the four.


EDIT: Also, before I forget, type in "shroom" and variations upon that to hiveworkshop. It's ridiculous how many possible models there are out there
;]

[Bosco_the_Bear]

Its not all about lore though roflpot. Functionality, playability and ease of creation are the main factors in making the races. Ofc lore plays a part, but its not gonna ruin the game if we have a few "lorelols" as you call them.

[Roflpotamus]

That is why most of my post does not pertain to lore.

[NavySeal]

Ya Nickel your posts are too big and Im too lazy to spend all that time reading them... Shorten them a bit, make it easier? And is this pertaining to Outland/Draenor and is Outland Risk gona be thE Outland/Draenor Risk product or will they be different?

[Nickel510]

Ya Nickel your posts are too big and Im too lazy to spend all that time reading them... Shorten them a bit, make it easier? And is this pertaining to Outland/Draenor and is Outland Risk gona be thE Outland/Draenor Risk product or will they be different?

Sorry but I won't answer your posts when I might have answered them in a previous one, just because you don't want to take 2 minutes to read what took me 10 minutes to type.

And to rofl... you seem to have mentioned two lorelols, Shat'tar not being a race and Wildhammer being one, yet I see you suggest two lorelols yourself such as making an entrance from Ogri'la to Zangarmarsh and a portal from Netherstorm to Black Temple, so I know you know that some sacrifices to lore must be made in the name of gameplay, but you seem to be stuck on the races being a little sacrificed for gameplay. I do however, now that I think about it, like the idea of combining Aldor and Scryer. I don't like the idea of moving them to SMV, imo wildhammer is a dwarf clan, they aren't part of Honor Hold and they're unique enough to justify their own race, where as the Shadowmoon Clan is just another clan of orcs.

However, making Sha'tar in place of Aldor and Scryer has multiple advantages. First, Scryer is a blood elf race and we already have Kaels Blood Elves so having two blood elf races seems redundant and not as original. Second, there are very few Draenei models on the hive, and what models there are, not all but most, are way way to big for this map. The lowest kb model I found for the Draenei was this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/draenei-assassin-now-tc-48452/?prev=search%3Ddraenei%26d%3Dlist%26r%3D20 which is 86kb, which is already almost too big, as I've already gotten some complaints about lag so I'm going to have to elimate something... I'm thinking about the rivers and like half of the doodads used to make Hellfire and Shattrath, but we'll see, I want to see how bad it lags after Zizus changes, models are added, unnecessary units are removed, and the map is optimized, which sometimes cuts the map size in half.

Also, the smallest skin I found was 64kb sentinel, which is pointless as the current sentinels are similar enough to a draenei with a little tinting, though I haven't tested it. http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/skins-552/draeneihuntress_by67chrome-blp-155350/?prev=search%3Ddraenei%26d%3Dlist%26r%3D20

Last... Shattrath is kind of too small for 2 races, so giving it just one might work, plus, it makes Bosco's job easier to make one race instead of two.

I won't add a third entry to Blade's Edge from Zangarmarsh, I think two is enough and I kind of like the current design, also I played a game with Vas last night and the Blades Edge, Netherstorm turtle kind of has its own balance to it. For one, it may be hard to take Blades Edge but its also hard to attack from Blades Edge. Vasquez was able to easily defend Zangarmarsh from my slaves and I while he and his slave finished yellow, leaving us helpless to do anything while he killed off our only chance.
However, I think I will add a portal mode linking key areas to other parts of the world, like linking Ogri'la to Throne of Kiljaeden. The justification for this would be the burning legion bases could be linked by portals and most every region has at least one burning legion base, though that doesn't have to be the qualification for having a portal as Netherstorm has no legion bases but that doesn't mean it wouldn't/shouldn't have one.

Here's the areas that I think should be linked with portals -
1) Ogri'la & Throne of Kil'Jaeden (and by Ogri'la I don't actually MEAN Ogri'la, I would have the portal located at that legion base below Ogri'la)
2) Manaforge Corru (netherstorm) & Scyer Tier (please rofl, for once don't bring up anymore lorelols...)
3) Sketti to Raven Wood ( I know it's close to the other portal but I think it might work )
4) Auchindoun to the Forgotten Island.

And thats it thanks! Did I forget anything?

[NavySeal]

Well than it seems nothing will be done D:

[Roflpotamus]

Ya Nickel your posts are too big and Im too lazy to spend all that time reading them... Shorten them a bit, make it easier? And is this pertaining to Outland/Draenor and is Outland Risk gona be thE Outland/Draenor Risk product or will they be different?

Sorry but I won't answer your posts when I might have answered them in a previous one, just because you don't want to take 2 minutes to read what took me 10 minutes to type.

And to rofl... I

Oh you tease you...

That aside, I've got this great idea: basically you...

[Nickel510]

errr sorry I was editting my post when you posted that, but yes I am a tease =P

and to navy... lol i did it again. looks like you'll never be able to help as all my posts are huge and massive or one or two sentences with no information

[Roflpotamus]

I see your point regarding just another BE race. I stopped advocating the Shadowmoon clan and instead said scratch the two.

Imo, the Shat'tar should be half BE and half Draeni whilst the Scryer (in southern SMV) and the Aldor (in northern SMV) would be individualistic.

Mayhaps share 1/4-1/3 of the units with Kael's BE, give Kael's BE more demons and fel stuff, and give the rest, 3/4 or 2/3, of the stuff for Scryer as Blood Knights, etc. If 3/4, then 2/4 or 1/2 of the Scryer individual units could be transfered to the Shat'tar.

Oh I see what you meant, you wanted to make the Shat'tar the faction with the combo.

In response, I feel that there are enough units to justify a Draeni solo race. I feel that there is no need for a rehashed broken race.

I also didn't know that Blade's Edge already had to entrances to it via Zangar seeing how I was going off of WoW since I've never played the map =[

Speaking of which, when do you all nerd on the map? I wanna have a gander.

Until I play, I'll hold off on the portal suggestions.

Furthermore, what do you think of the 3 races (and 3 players max) per zone?

[Nickel510]

I see your point regarding just another BE race. I stopped advocating the Shadowmoon clan and instead said scratch the two.

Imo, the Shat'tar should be half BE and half Draeni whilst the Scryer (in southern SMV) and the Aldor (in northern SMV) would be individualistic.

Mayhaps share 1/4-1/3 of the units with Kael's BE, give Kael's BE more demons and fel stuff, and give the rest, 3/4 or 2/3, of the stuff for Scryer as Blood Knights, etc. If 3/4, then 2/4 or 1/2 of the Scryer individual units could be transfered to the Shat'tar.

Oh I see what you meant, you wanted to make the Shat'tar the faction with the combo.

In response, I feel that there are enough units to justify a Draeni solo race. I feel that there is no need for a rehashed broken race.

I also didn't know that Blade's Edge already had to entrances to it via Zangar seeing how I was going off of WoW since I've never played the map =[

Speaking of which, when do you all nerd on the map? I wanna have a gander.

Until I play, I'll hold off on the portal suggestions.

Furthermore, what do you think of the 3 races (and 3 players max) per zone?

Well first off, I'd have to disagree with you, there really isn't enough Draenei models for its own race. All the models would have to be either lost ones from wc3 or eredar models, otherwise they would all be imported which is not an option.

Second, I thank you for your advice so far, it's helped me to hone in what I want for the races, but I think I'm going to stay with what I've posted. I'd rather have the Kael Thas race be mainly Blood Elves with one or two demons, they were always my favorite race in Wc3 and it just doesn't seem right downplaying them as a blood elf race, but that's just my nerdness talking.
I also thought the Scryers were pretty lame compared to Kael Thas and his blood elves, so I have no problem in getting rid of them.

I would really like a full-fleshed Draenei race, but the model situation just gets to me, and I don't like the idea of having Aldor without Scryer, and including both races and the Sha'tar, a combination between the two races... just doesn't sound appealing to me.

Also, the Kurenai are a bit of a re-hash like you said before, WoW Risk has lots of re-hashes, so why can't we have just one? It would make boscos job much easier, plus if I replaced the Ashtongue clan with anything it would probably be the Netherwing flight, but that's too much work!

Oh and for the 3 races per region... I still would never add Sporregar as it's own race! I saw like 1 or 2 models in hive that would work for the race. The rest were all from mario (lol) or were real mushrooms. Plus, I don't want a race that is all models! That's why I want to eliminate the Aldor, because there are no good Draenei models, except the Eredar but I think they're much better suited for the broken.

I think once you play a game and you start to lag, models and unique races will seem much less important. Playability first! Then the aesthetics.

Though I am willing to import icons, which goes a long way in making the clan feel more authentic, but then that just adds to the problem of new models, as most of them will need a new icon too!

But, as I said before, I don't think every place does need 3 races. I still like the idea of having a 3 race limit but limitting the places with 3 races to the regions that have a turtle advantage. Also, it means less work for Bosco. But mainly, its because I kind of like the idea of varying the races per region as a form of balance. But we'll see how that works when the game is released. Now, I must comment in full to your Draenor Risk Race thread! And btw thanks for making that and for all your suggestions .

Oh and if you want to play Outland Risk, it's currently on the bot.
1.0 is the newest version, unless it's saved as .10... I can't remember.

[Roflpotamus]

I see your point regarding just another BE race. I stopped advocating the Shadowmoon clan and instead said scratch the two.

Imo, the Shat'tar should be half BE and half Draeni whilst the Scryer (in southern SMV) and the Aldor (in northern SMV) would be individualistic.

Mayhaps share 1/4-1/3 of the units with Kael's BE, give Kael's BE more demons and fel stuff, and give the rest, 3/4 or 2/3, of the stuff for Scryer as Blood Knights, etc. If 3/4, then 2/4 or 1/2 of the Scryer individual units could be transfered to the Shat'tar.

Oh I see what you meant, you wanted to make the Shat'tar the faction with the combo.

In response, I feel that there are enough units to justify a Draeni solo race. I feel that there is no need for a rehashed broken race.

I also didn't know that Blade's Edge already had to entrances to it via Zangar seeing how I was going off of WoW since I've never played the map =[

Speaking of which, when do you all nerd on the map? I wanna have a gander.

Until I play, I'll hold off on the portal suggestions.

Furthermore, what do you think of the 3 races (and 3 players max) per zone?

Well first off, I'd have to disagree with you, there really isn't enough Draenei models for its own race. All the models would have to be either lost ones from wc3 or eredar models, otherwise they would all be imported which is not an option.

Why is it not an option to import? I don't think that it would increase lag in how I've honestly seen entire maps using SC2 graphics that were supposedly lag-free. Furthermore, the project I'm working on with others: Warcraft 4: The Edge of Eternity, uses SC2 quality graphics and is basically lag free. I also have a bunch of Draeni models open in other tabs and they all look awesome =x

Second, I thank you for your advice so far, it's helped me to hone in what I want for the races, but I think I'm going to stay with what I've posted. I'd rather have the Kael Thas race be mainly Blood Elves with one or two demons, they were always my favorite race in Wc3 and it just doesn't seem right downplaying them as a blood elf race, but that's just my nerdness talking.

While I agree that they were teh woots (and the horrible lorelol Blizz did with BC =/) you can draw a clean line between them.

1/3 of Shat'tar units would be Scryers
1/3 would be Aldor
1/3 of Scryer units would be shared with Kael's BE.

For the Kael BE, we could make them more Fel-based, like the Fel-infused BE in the Sunwell. This is talking about the units that are not shared. This could be a simple red tint on an existing model, mayhaps either imported or something with wings... Demon-form Demon hunter?

For the Scryer BE we could make them more Light-based with Blood knights using existing models in game and imported models (there are a million and half created BE models that are low to high resolution).

I also thought the Scryers were pretty lame compared to Kael Thas and his blood elves, so I have no problem in getting rid of them.

Tee hee.

I would really like a full-fleshed Draenei race, but the model situation just gets to me, and I don't like the idea of having Aldor without Scryer, and including both races and the Sha'tar, a combination between the two races... just doesn't sound appealing to me.

I see what your saying about having the Shat'tar completely without unique units and I agree. Rather than having the Shat'tar be half-half as originally thought-out, they could be 1/3 and 1/3, and have the last third be composed of units unique to themselves, variations of Naaru and whatnot garble, maybe even Horde and Alliance units a la Argent Dawn in WoW Risk.

The Aldor and the Scryer are heavily at odds with one another and to have this readily displayed I think would be a good move.

Also, the Kurenai are a bit of a re-hash like you said before, WoW Risk has lots of re-hashes, so why can't we have just one? It would make boscos job much easier, plus if I replaced the Ashtongue clan with anything it would probably be the Netherwing flight, but that's too much work!

In light of making Bosco's life easier, I've argued for an allotment policy of units seen above (1/3, 1/3, etc). This allows for unique units while maintaining a faction's integrity and reducing the work load to a lesser degree.

Oh and for the 3 races per region... I still would never add Sporregar as it's own race! I saw like 1 or 2 models in hive that would work for the race. The rest were all from mario (lol) or were real mushrooms. Plus, I don't want a race that is all models! That's why I want to eliminate the Aldor, because there are no good Draenei models, except the Eredar but I think they're much better suited for the broken.

If we want a possible limit of 3 races per zone, then Zangar would need another. Seeing how the Sporregar are a large race in that zone maintaining a faction-rep presence, methinks it should be done. Also, did you see the model of the hulking mushroom? Man, c'mon that shit is scary!

P.S. Why does my spellcheck think that yous is a word? =/ I've got a ghetto pc.

I think once you play a game and you start to lag, models and unique races will seem much less important. Playability first! Then the aesthetics.

When do you all play so I can get in on the nerd?

Though I am willing to import icons, which goes a long way in making the clan feel more authentic, but then that just adds to the problem of new models, as most of them will need a new icon too!

Most of these models have been created with new icons, so that shouldn't be a problem. The problem is that the models supposedly lag the game, if you want, I could put you in touch with some of the guys working on Warcraft 4: The Edge of Eternity so you can find out what they're doing to eliminate the lag.

I don't actually do anything short of design the races, storyline, gameplay. Stupid is me.

But, as I said before, I don't think every place does need 3 races. I still like the idea of having a 3 race limit but limitting the places with 3 races to the regions that have a turtle advantage. Also, it means less work for Bosco. But mainly, its because I kind of like the idea of varying the races per region as a form of balance. But we'll see how that works when the game is released. Now, I must comment in full to your Draenor Risk Race thread! And btw thanks for making that and for all your suggestions .

Np, 'tis fun to offer my ideas to a map that is clearly a winrar! Imo, having a huge region such as Nagrand only having two races is =[quote]e the possibility of having three races in every region and trying to balance out the turtle effect via teleports or other means so players can still have variability (and regions like Nagrand that are huge don't get neglected).

Oh and if you want to play Outland Risk, it's currently on the bot.
1.0 is the newest version, unless it's saved as .10... I can't remember.

Oh I'm silly-billy.

Off to do that sometime soon, as of now, a response to the other thread then a 20 page paper!

[Nickel510]

First, GL on your paper

I do not envy you right now... Unless it's about Draenor RISK, I could not do it atm.

OK... lol time to discuss the wonderful points you have raised once again Thanks for continued support/ideas. You're really the only one to post any ideas worth responding to so far, but don't tell anyone I said that!

1) As for the models, here is the thing. This map currently has quite a bit of doodads, a la Zizu got a bit carried away. As of now, I think two clannies, maybe a third, have complained to me about lag in game, saying they usually never lag in WoW Risk. Really, I need more testing to varify this, but it does worry me and would sense because the map has about 7500 doodads, a lot of units (not models but custom units, not sure how much this adds to lag) and quite a bit of imported models, mostly for doodads. Most of them are pretty small and but I would estimate all the imported doodads are about 1/3 of the map size. And that is with DOODAD, mostly, models. Which means... unit models *cringe* could triple the size of this map. So... my thought is this:
Make Outland Risk as skin and bones as possible, test it for lag, and build it up if its lag free.
However, lag might be caused by something else, I really honestly don't know WHAT causes lag, other then everyone says its caused by leaks, models, lots of doodads and lots of units on the screen at the same time. That is one reason I fear models. If lag is caused by lots of units (which I've no doubt that this does cause units) then units + custom models will probably cause the game to lag all the more. However, I know blizzard models are not all that small. Some are even bigger then custom models in poly count I think. So the only disadvantage to a custom model, or skin, in that case would be the extra file size, but I've really no idea if that's true or not. Would you please talk to your Wc4 buddies and ask them about this? I'll also try the hive, but you don't always get good feedback and I'd like multiple opinions.
Thanks a lot man assuming you're going to

Oh and I totally agree. Some of the sickest models are Draenei, but they're also big mother sized models, lotso' kbs. Trust me, I'd love to fill this map up with custom models, but gameplay is my first and foremost concern, then aesthetics, though appearance goes a long way in making for a better gaming experience, so I'm trying to reach the limit of adding in custom models and 'pretty things' but I don't know what the limit is! Curse my inexperience.

Do you know Bosco? Are you even still reading these posts? O.o

And yeah, I got no problem with having some mixed races that have original units + recycled ones, but first! I'd just like to get out the necessary races and THEN add to it. But I'm loving these ideas, I probably would never have considered half this stuff if not for you buddy , and I'll definitely try to add Sha'tar if lag allows, but probably not till next version, if you get my drift.

As for the imballance of Nagrand... consider this! Nagrand is really not that big. Its not real small, probably SMV, Netherstorm, Sporregar and Terokkar are the smallest, but the real issue is INCOME, and to my knowledge, most of the regions have almost the same income. Netherstorm has the least I know that, but I think that works well. Even Blades Edge, which is easily the biggest region, does not I think have more income then Nagrand or Hellfire and I think SMV might have the most income... not sure on this, maybe you could check it out next time you play.

So in a way, the income itself adds the the balance. Blades edge is quite large but has no extra income over, say, Nagrand. Netherstorm is also large (in terms of travelling due to all the gaps and bridges) but has the lowest income, which means taking Blades Edge and Netherstorm will probably take 1.5 times as long as it would to take SMV and Terokkar but will yield less income.
This isn't a huge balancing system, but it plays into the gameplay.
Also, Blades Edge does have 2 entrances from Sporregar in the actual game !!!! Zizuzazu wouldn't have it any other way I'm sure if it was up to him, everything would been exactly to scale and nothing would be playable.

As for Nagrand and only 2 races, consider this! Nagrand is bordering Sporregar, Shattrath and Terokkar. Now, if Shattrath is considered part of Terokkar then it is pretty much a part of Nagrand also, as there is a portal linking Nagrand to Shattrath in the Aldor rise, just like in the game. So, if you got no problem with Terokkar having only two races + Shattrath then it should go both ways with Nagrand.

[Roflpotamus]

First, GL on your paper

I do not envy you right now... Unless it's about Draenor RISK, I could not do it atm.

OK... lol time to discuss the wonderful points you have raised once again Thanks for continued support/ideas. You're really the only one to post any ideas worth responding to so far, but don't tell anyone I said that!

It's our secret!

1) As for the models, here is the thing. This map currently has quite a bit of doodads, a la Zizu got a bit carried away. As of now, I think two clannies, maybe a third, have complained to me about lag in game, saying they usually never lag in WoW Risk. Really, I need more testing to varify this, but it does worry me and would sense because the map has about 7500 doodads, a lot of units (not models but custom units, not sure how much this adds to lag) and quite a bit of imported models, mostly for doodads. Most of them are pretty small and but I would estimate all the imported doodads are about 1/3 of the map size. And that is with DOODAD, mostly, models. Which means... unit models *cringe* could triple the size of this map. So... my thought is this:
Make Outland Risk as skin and bones as possible, test it for lag, and build it up if its lag free.
However, lag might be caused by something else, I really honestly don't know WHAT causes lag, other then everyone says its caused by leaks, models, lots of doodads and lots of units on the screen at the same time. That is one reason I fear models. If lag is caused by lots of units (which I've no doubt that this does cause units) then units + custom models will probably cause the game to lag all the more. However, I know blizzard models are not all that small. Some are even bigger then custom models in poly count I think. So the only disadvantage to a custom model, or skin, in that case would be the extra file size, but I've really no idea if that's true or not. Would you please talk to your Wc4 buddies and ask them about this? I'll also try the hive, but you don't always get good feedback and I'd like multiple opinions.
Thanks a lot man assuming you're going to

Oh and I totally agree. Some of the sickest models are Draenei, but they're also big mother sized models, lotso' kbs. Trust me, I'd love to fill this map up with custom models, but gameplay is my first and foremost concern, then aesthetics, though appearance goes a long way in making for a better gaming experience, so I'm trying to reach the limit of adding in custom models and 'pretty things' but I don't know what the limit is! Curse my inexperience.

As far as I'm aware, the largest contributors to lag are large amounts of units on the screen and doodads; mostly the second. I'll ask me crew when someone gets on.

Do you know Bosco? Are you even still reading these posts? O.o

And yeah, I got no problem with having some mixed races that have original units + recycled ones, but first! I'd just like to get out the necessary races and THEN add to it. But I'm loving these ideas, I probably would never have considered half this stuff if not for you buddy , and I'll definitely try to add Sha'tar if lag allows, but probably not till next version, if you get my drift.

As for the imballance of Nagrand... consider this! Nagrand is really not that big. Its not real small, probably SMV, Netherstorm, Sporregar and Terokkar are the smallest, but the real issue is INCOME, and to my knowledge, most of the regions have almost the same income. Netherstorm has the least I know that, but I think that works well. Even Blades Edge, which is easily the biggest region, does not I think have more income then Nagrand or Hellfire and I think SMV might have the most income... not sure on this, maybe you could check it out next time you play.

So in a way, the income itself adds the the balance. Blades edge is quite large but has no extra income over, say, Nagrand. Netherstorm is also large (in terms of travelling due to all the gaps and bridges) but has the lowest income, which means taking Blades Edge and Netherstorm will probably take 1.5 times as long as it would to take SMV and Terokkar but will yield less income.
This isn't a huge balancing system, but it plays into the gameplay.
Also, Blades Edge does have 2 entrances from Sporregar in the actual game !!!! Zizuzazu wouldn't have it any other way I'm sure if it was up to him, everything would been exactly to scale and nothing would be playable.

As for Nagrand and only 2 races, consider this! Nagrand is bordering Sporregar, Shattrath and Terokkar. Now, if Shattrath is considered part of Terokkar then it is pretty much a part of Nagrand also, as there is a portal linking Nagrand to Shattrath in the Aldor rise, just like in the game. So, if you got no problem with Terokkar having only two races + Shattrath then it should go both ways with Nagrand.

.... I'll type up more in a sec but atm I need restroom!!!!!

Since Nagrand has so many entrances, it should have more possible races (IE more than two players in it). Even though Shatt is bordering Nagrand, for Empire-gold it should be considered a part of Terrokar and thus the number of races in Terrokar should include Shatt.

Regarding the income vs. area size, I'll offer my 20 pence whence I play, but maybe encourage a situation akin to real risk where several people constantly vie for Asia but no one really gets it until the game is near over instead of clear-cut empire control all-over.

I'll explore this thought more in-depth, off to research!

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